La Capra

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Posts by La Capra

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  39

  Please advise.

  by embalmed in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after years of waiting, i finally turned 18. i remember distinctly that my mother said during an argument that i would not have to attend meetings once i turned 18. well that was a lie.

  she denied ever having said such, and pulled the "under my roof" card.

  so now she is saying i have to continue attending meetings until i move out.

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  La Capra

  mkr, and Sith, if it is different for the boys as opposed to the girls, you probably didn't realize that Embalmed is of the female persuasion...what's your advice now? If I am wrong, Embalmed, I apologize, and please correct me. I just know high school students really well, and well, you write like a girl. And actually, I agree, it is different for boys and girls in the WTBTS. I think congregations are harder on girls for not taking an early stand, going on to college, etc. (By personal experience, and observations of others in my area). Shoshana
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  60

  Idea on How Defectors Inside theOrganization Can Find Each Other (espionage

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lets work up some good ideas that we can pass on to bethel workers, cos, dos, elders etc... can use to help them to start to find others in the org that know it's not the truth but are stuck inside for various reasons.

  lets come up with some way of testing people to so as not to blow ones cover and remain hidden.

  plans of espionage that could cause a major blow to the organization from those trapped inside, things like how co can give talks to really discourge the friends and cause them to doubt the organization, all the while it looks like he's are doing what the organization wants him to do.

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  La Capra

  I have two words for you... mismatched socks It could always be brushed off to absentmindedness, or if necessary, easily concealed. Of course it leaves the women out of it, but the women could wear mismatched earrings... Shoshana
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  39

  Please advise.

  by embalmed in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after years of waiting, i finally turned 18. i remember distinctly that my mother said during an argument that i would not have to attend meetings once i turned 18. well that was a lie.

  she denied ever having said such, and pulled the "under my roof" card.

  so now she is saying i have to continue attending meetings until i move out.

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  La Capra

  Embalmed,

  Until you are ready to move out, try not to rock the boat. Now that it's summer, get full time work. Save, save save. Help out your mom as much as you can, help around the house, when she gets pissy, try not to get pissy back. Keep your room clean, do the dishes, vacuum the house... try to remember that you have a loftier goal, to get away from those meetings.

  If you can keep peace around there, then the only conflict you have to deal with is the religion.

  And yes, it is how your mom is perceived by the others that is motivating her. It seems really evil, but it's a natural urge. Everyone wants to fit in, including your mom.

  Surviving high school, saving some cash, getting out of there eventually, that's the goal. Dealing with your mom and the meetings is a trivial detail (like taking out the trash). Try to rise above. And keep us posted. I wonder from time to time how you are faring.

  Shoshana
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  53

  "This Generation" change -- fallout evidence?

  by reagan_oconnor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading the recent posts on 2034 and was wondering... .

  the 1975 debacle left the fds scrambling for explanations for the mass exodus of r&f who were disillusioned by their bs.

  the pat answer has always been, "those people didn't keep pace with god's chariot" and they weren't "strong in the truth" and allowed something so "minor" to "stumble" them.

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  La Capra

  Two things;

  1) Would someone give the nutshell version of the change in the sheep and the goats thing. (Being the goat that I am (get it? La Capra) I was enjoying not hanging with the sheep.

  2) The fact that the abandonment of the generation doctrine went by with hardly a blip just shows what a mind control cult that religion is. One of the biggest carrots that they ever dangled was never dying. Even though they say "new light" out of one side of their mouths, they still use the "everlasting life on earth" as their carrot.

  A few years ago, a young mother with a four year old came round. I lightly challenged her on the generation thing, how my "friend in high school" back in the 80s tried to convince me of the 1914 generation. This gal spewed out the whole "new light" garbage. But the four-year-old...already in that zone... kept asking me if I wanted to die, if I was going to die. (Good thing I wasn't suicidal-eh? Mom didn't even have the good sense to be embarrassed.) I think most of them took the "new light" and are simply trying to ignore the real effect it has.

  This tells me that with many of the JWs, particularly any at least 25 years old, are hanging by a very thin thread and don't even realize it. For many of them, when something trivial happens that makes them question the organization, this thread will snap-creating the no-brainer moment. Or at least one could hope.

  Shoshana
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  46

  What was your breaking point?

  by soundbox_guy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  okay, i'm new as you all probably know, so my question may have been discussed several times in the past.

  i'm just curious as to when some of you came to the conclusion that enough was enough and that you didn't want to attend the meetings anymore or not be a jw.

  was it in field service, at home, at the hall?

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  La Capra

  After being treated really poorly by my peer group and the "bitties" because I went to college (part time, still made all the meetings and had as many "hours" as they did), I felt really rejected. I made a few new acquaintances in my classes. They were truly kind, caring, and frankly loving. Far more loving and accepting than anyone I had ever come across in the JWs. It was then I realized there was no love with JWs. I wasn't sure what it was, but it wasn't love. I could recount tale after tale with JWs where love could have been shown, and never was. And on the flip side, I could see kindnesses shown all over the place in the "world."

  When I spent literally 30 minutes of my undivided attention on the evidence and logic of the JW religion, it crumbled quickly. It was sudden. I didn't fade or piss around. I was fully in one day. And fully out the next (even though I "posed" for about three weeks to get through a vacation with other JWs). I have never even wondered since then if I had made a mistake. They must not have done a very good job of brainwashing me.

  Shoshana
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  23

  Ozzie's Weekend Poll #137

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so how's it been for you this week?

  reading all the experiences this week has been a real cocktail of humor and tragedy, hasn't it?

  not to forget all the "tech problems"!!

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  La Capra

  
  Ozzie,

  Good question. After departing in 1987, I attended various services of multiple religions for lots of different reasons. Most had a "social hour" afterwards at which home-baked goodies (yippee-nearly always there is chocolate cake or brownies) and weak de-caf (for the old-timers) were served. Most facilities had a room or hall called the "the social hall" just for this purpose.

  I figured that the true reason why this does not occur at Kingdom Halls with the JWs goes a lot deeper than the reasons you suggest. The deeper reason is that this sort of socializing might make people come to meetings for the wrong reasons. These after-parties would take away from the true importance of the meetings, which is to be indoctrinated to do more to bring in more converts, who in turn bring in more converts....

  There has been, and always will be, a taboo on all the things that naturally bring joy to humans. Enjoying a nosh and a schmooze together is one of those things. There has been almost as much print space alotted to controlling "get-togethers" as there has been to discouraging secular goals. People might come to meetings for the wrong reason, to get a brownie or chocolate cake (let's face it, no one comes for the weak de-caf).

  This question hits to the essence of why the WTBTS does nothing to help non-JWs in need. They love their little phrase about not casting pearls before swine. They think non-JWs, or the "spiritually weak" JWs might just come for the goodies, thus elevating the nosh and schmooze higher than the meeting itself. If you don't offer anything but the religion, then you know their true motives for attending (to be brain-washed). If you don't offer, food, clothing, shelter to the needy, then you know they are coming to meetings for the "right reasons."

  What I think is missing from the JW religion is that value of social connection and pure charity-giving while knowing you will get absolutely nothing in return. It is not what the religion can do for you, but what you can do for the religion. Don't you think it is odd that most religions build their facilities with social rooms, kitchens, classrooms, outdoor gardens, etc. It fosters the notion that the "church" is a place for community, not just "religion." However, JW facilities are just parking lots, meeting rooms, lavatories and book stores. In fact, if people are not in their seats in the Kingdom Halls, there is usually very little room for them to mill around visiting in the aisles or in the back. (Ever notice that? The Halls are designed to discourage people from arriving early and lingering after...)

  So there you go. What I think.

  Shoshana
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  40

  District Assembly eating rules....

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during our district assembly which will be held at a coliseum, we were told not to go outside during the intermission, and not eat in restaurants near by.

  we were told to bring our own food and eat inside the coliseum.

  usually, the coliseum offers hot dogs and hamburgers and drinks, but the brothers refused this service.. .

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  La Capra

  Has any area started tailgating? JWs thrive on the technicality. Technically, tailgate parties fit into the rules....(fire up the portable gas grills brothers and sisters-nothing like wholesome association in the parking lot, with fresh air, sunshine and a brisk walk to and from the SUV). Shoshana
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  9

  THIS IS IT -- JWs are a Legal Concept

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is a legal concept called, "femme couverte," which means upon marriage, a woman is absorbed into the person of her husband.

  the 18-century british scholar sir william blackstone said, "the very being of legal existence of the woman is suspended during the marriage, or at least is incorporated and consolidated into that of the husband, under whose wing, protection, and cover she performs everything.

  when i read this i thought, that's what happens to a jw when they get baptized.

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  La Capra

  And this is the reason why psycho-analysis is so frowned upon by the WTBTS. The whole point of therapy is coming to terms with who you are. WTBTS discourages the notion of the individual, calling it "goat-like," or by trying to make people feel guilty for thinking selfishly, independently, etc. No mind-control system can survive if it encourages self discovery, satisfaction and actualization. In a word "CULT." I wish I had known my mother before she was assimilated. I bet she was on her way to being really cool. Shoshana
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  23

  Theocratic coloring book for children

  by unbeliever in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://members.tripod.com/~charb46/

  would you want your children coloring some of these pictures?

  if you want to see a larger version go to the website above and click on the pictures.

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  La Capra

  I wonder if Margaret Keane knows she jacked her (I'm sure it's copyrighted) paradise picture for the cover
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  8

  who should i take to hawaii?

  by tsunami_rid3r in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  id like to take a friend to hawaii so i wont be stuck with just my parents.

  the firends ive made this year, i havent hung out with them a lot...only a couple times....how do i do this?

  i go in august.

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  La Capra

  Oh Tsu.....I went on a family Hawaii trip during an August- just before I started my fulltime college studies. I went to my VERY LAST meeting in Hawaii. Your post so brings back fond memories of my excited prospect of freedom from the JWs. If you have a cousin, or a youngish uncle close to your age or a long time friend that may not live near you, ask one of them. Since the destination requires travel, it doesn't really matter where he comes from. He's going to have to travel anyway. He can meet you there! Aloha. Shoshana